John Patterson: Transcending Countries and Cultural Borders and the Divide Between Service and Profit
A clergyman, village worker in India, CEO of a multinational IT consultancy company, and organizer around issues of social justice and local agriculture, John Patterson’s life might at first glance resemble a chaotic journey of sudden turns and transitions. But not as he tells it, “I’m going to talk about a company I helped start, but first I’m going to talk about my life as a whole, because even though my life experiences have been diverse, all 64.5 years, it feels like a single experience.”
In this interview John tells the story that took a small town Canadian pastor and his schoolteacher wife into the midst of Asia, and back again, along the way helping to create Kanbay, a prosperous values-based IT consultancy company, and raising their two children. He shares how his values have shaped his business, particularly in an environment with entirely different ‘poetic systems of religion’.
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EBBF: Can you talk a little bit about the story behind a clergyman starting a big business in India?
John: Well, my father was a clergyman in Canada, so I grew up as a pastor’s kid, and the church was very much part of our lives. Unlike many, I didn’t furiously rebel against all that. Rather I studied [in Toronto, Scotland, and Kingston, Ontario], became an ordained as a pastor, and served for three great years in a small town in northern Canada. I enjoyed the role of pastor, but found it less stimulating than I’d expected. After much consideration, my wife Thea and I asked ourselves, ‘Where will more be required of us?’ We subsequently moved to Chicago where I completed a post graduate degree, studying eastern orthodoxy. Towards the end of that time I met up with a church-related service organization, the Institute of Cultural Affairs (ICA), which appealed to me very much and was doing very demanding and challenging work. So after finishing my Masters, when they asked if we’d be willing to serve in India, Thea and I jumped at the invitation.
We first spent six months in Hong Kong being trained for later roles and then several years in India. For the first time in our lives we came across cultures that were radically different from our own. We had to figure out how to relate to other religions. When your entire motivation or “poetic system of religion” comes from one tradition – in our case Christianity – and you move to a society with a totally different tradition, how do you manage that? We had to figure it out on our own – not as missionaries, but in service – to come to understand what was needed to help people develop their own skills and capacity.
It was a thrilling challenge to step into a culture as radically different as India. We had to make friends, find contacts, figure out community needs, find people to work with – people who were like-minded even if not from the same religious background—with a different ‘poetic system’. It was hugely challenging. Even something as simple as figuring out how to comport oneself in someone’s home was a challenge. For example, we had to learn that you never allow your left hand to operate near the food or table; you only use your right hand—for reasons that now seem obvious! But how do you know that before you go there? You need to be very observant. When people serve you and you help yourself using your left hand, and then that plate disappears to the kitchen never to be seen again, you do reflect on why.
I was responsible for finding money in India to carry out the village development work that ICA was doing to alleviate poverty and disease. I had to find industrialists, service clubs and people of wealth who were willing to be separated from their money in order for our village work to continue. So I moved between spending time in the villages with the very, very poor and meeting with people of enormous influence – people who in India would be the equivalent of the Rockefellers in our context. This too was a new experience as in Canada I had rarely met people of that stature. Our time in India began in 1974, and we were there for five years. Then we moved around a bit, still working for the ICA, serving two years in England, three years on the global council for our organization, a year in New York City working with the UN in order to secure consultative status for the Institute, and then returned again to India for six more years, from '85 to '91.
By this time our kids were reaching college age, we had no money, and we thought, ‘Well, we’d better do something about this.’ So in 1988, together with two friends, we founded Kanbay, an IT company, building on India’s growing strength in the computer science field, even though at that time we had little knowledge about IT. In ‘91 Thea and I moved to Hong Kong to launch operations there and I began to focus on the company full-time, without other distractions. We lived in Hong Kong until 2004. During this period we opened branches of our company in Singapore and Australia, and later in Japan. By then we had 7000 workers in India. I was the CEO for the Asia-Pacific region, and was responsible for recruiting local people for the new offices and visiting potential clients. We also had firms in London and several American cities.
- With his wife, Thea
EBBF: Could you describe the business you created in a little more detail?
John: What we did is generally known as IT consulting. We had an excellent team of system designers and programmers who worked with clients to identify their needs and requirements. We would have a combination of senior designers and consultants who worked with clients on their site, and a large number of mostly programming staff in India. This enabled us to meet clients’ needs much more quickly, reliably and economically than clients could do on their own. We were in on the early phases of the IT revolution in India, learned the ropes pretty quickly, and helped to give shape to that industry.
Our business model was to locate a client in Europe, North America or Asia who needed IT work done, send local people to work on site with the client, and gradually as the client developed trust in our company, shift some of the programming work to India to reduce costs. We would always have some people working on site, but the larger part of the team was in India. This way all of the inconveniences of time zones (early morning conversations with programmers) and language were absorbed by Kanbay rather than by the client.
As our business grew, we developed particular specializations. Our focus became the banking and insurance industries. Kanbay developed huge capacity in credit card software, and became very well known in this field.
EBBF: How did you reconcile your values and motivations as a service-based pastor to the profit-based reality of the business world?
John: Well, having decided to devote my life to service, my question at the time was, ‘How do we get into this dirty thing called business and not get totally consumed by it?’ I knew business was not all bad, but my partners and I were moving from service work (with barely enough to eat) to being owners of a tech-based business. So we agreed that the company must be built on principles that were important to us. We had long conversations about what these were. Much of these conversations centered on the human factor, on our clients, and on the people who would be entrusting their lives to us. If we look after our people, we said, the company will grow well. We knew that when you have people from different cultures and countries, the entire business depends on people being able to respect each other. No “I’m better than you” posture. We knew that this kind of respect would flow from the culture we built into our organization.
We began by stating our beliefs, and listed the core values that sprang from those beliefs. Then we defined behavior we expected from employees (both desirable and undesirable behavior). We came up with policies, systems and processes that would reflect those values, and every year we evaluated all this with everyone in the company.
EBBF: What were some of these values and beliefs that framed the work of the company?
John: We had three main beliefs. Globality to us meant not just operating in a number of countries or opening trade barriers, but referred to a mindset, transcendent of borders, where individuals fully realize their potential. The second was belief in the human spirit. We believed in creating an organization that fostered the human spirit through challenge and fulfillment. We said that our preoccupation was not with money, but with how to infuse spirit into all situations. And third, we conceived our company as a community rather than just a company. Everyone was cared for. Our purpose was to create environments that transcend borders and cultures to fully release human and organizational potential. We didn’t focus on profits, but we did become very profitable.
We had seven corporate values, developed across the company with everyone’s participation, three of which included: ‘We value respect for the individual’, ‘We value our ability to create and exceed high client expectations’, and ‘We value work that allows us to give back to our society’.
We made it clear what people could expect from our organization with regards to those values, and made explicit what kind of behavior would be rewarded and what was ‘taboo’. For example, with someone who was not performing well, it is taboo not to deal with it and ignore the issue. We must help, talk to him or her. We helped people grasp these values from day one. When someone started to work with us they received two full days of orientation just on our values and ethics. These were with the CEO, which demonstrated how important it was to us. Then there were regular reviews. We also really emphasized with those rising into leadership that whatever is embodied in their lives will be reflected in the lives of others, because it’s not what you say, but how what you say is manifested in your actions, that makes the difference.
- 3 of 7 Kanbay Corporate Values
EBBF: So you made explicit your beliefs and the values that spring from those beliefs, had lists of expected behaviors, and trained your employees in these. But it’s one thing to make lists of values and behavior and quite another thing to actually translate these values into behavior. How did you do this?
John: One of our policies was that, wherever Kanbay people worked, the environment had to be absolutely world class. We weren’t going to have crappy facilities in India and fabulous ones in Chicago. When entering the Kanbay offices in India people were shocked. Most offices in India are crowded, cramped, and messy. But Kanbay was absolutely immaculate. Every 30 minutes the bathrooms were cleaned. This was a big contrast with public restrooms. There’s a significantly different message that gets communicated to the associates when the bathrooms are crappy or when they are immaculately kept. Our business depended on associates who came from modest homes in India. We were concerned that they understand that true excellence was required from them, including very high standards of concentration and attention. We depended on their excellence. So our office had to be immaculate. And it worked really well. People were proud to work there. There was gorgeous art all over the offices, celebrating India.
Also, in our Indian offices we never had a big hierarchy. Even the senior officers also had cubicles. There were tons of meeting rooms where people could go and close the door. What message does this give? That this is a flat company, not a big hierarchy. If you need to have a meeting you always have space - interactive space. Consultations, giving opinions—this was strongly encouraged through the design of the facilities. Also we had a fabulous kitchen and dining facilities for staff, as well as a fleet of buses.
As to salaries and packages, Kanbay was always in the top 25% of companies compared with competitors. These were our values; we wanted people to become wealthy, and build a significant wealth base. You know, it was a slow start up for the company in Hong Kong, and for three years I didn’t get paid at all. That’s how it was with Kanbay’s senior management; we were always the last to be paid. If someone didn’t get paid, it was me. Thankfully my wife was working as a schoolteacher and we were receiving regular pay. If that’s sacrifice, that was our sacrifice - but it was a great time, and we were already used to living on little.
The pay scale was also very practical. If we were in the bottom 25% we wouldn’t be able to attract the talent we needed. But also I’m very proud that so many people were able to rise materially. We contributed to the wealth of men, and women—at a time when it was not common for Indian women to move up in the business arena.
From the way people were treated to the way the office was designed, everything was intended to communicate the values we held about excellence, the client’s high expectations, respecting individuals–the whole range of values. It wasn’t just on paper; it was also reflected in the facilities, in the salary, in the emergency leave for families. We were building our company when people were becoming independently mobile, buying motorcycles and so on. Occasionally someone would have a motorcycle crash. How a company handles a crash, an injury or a death reflects that company’s values. We didn’t spare expense at times like this. We’d deal with medical emergencies in the most caring way possible—over and above the company’s insurance coverage. When an emergency call comes in, who responds and how? Is it a brand new employee or someone with experience and responsibility? These sorts of things reflect your values in a way that the entire company and associates can witness.
So our employees would get brainwashed with values during their training and find them posted on the wall. But this means nothing, means zero, if your company does not respond in emergency situations in a way consistent with what you are saying. If the experience of management behavior doesn’t square up with what is written or said, then all is for naught.
Do you know how important food is? We assume that when we come to the conference center in Depoort [Holland, where the EBBF annual conference was held] that we’ll have fabulous food. In some parts of the world, food is taken much less for granted. So when you go to a company’s cafeteria, and there is fabulous local food available every single day, you begin to understand that this company’s value system even translates to how I get this wonderful meal each day at break time. Our staff felt profoundly cared for by the food that was offered - and they take their food very seriously. We take this for granted, but it’s such a blessing to have.
Also, the average space available to the individual was significantly larger (some 25%) than our competition’s. We gave more floor space and elbow room, and it made a difference – it’s very different having an open work space and privacy than being cramped into another’s space.
I don’t know what percentage, but I’m willing to say 30% of new hires were graduates of English, Philosophy, or History programs. We would train them in IT when they arrived. We were looking for people with a broader perspective in their lives, people who didn’t go into math and computer sciences after high school but had a broader educational background. Once they had that breadth, then the training at Kanbay was quick and effective. We wanted people who could move into the caliber of a leader, with a much broader understanding of life, relationships, questions of meaning - a more mature and well-rounded group of associates due to the breadth of their education. This opens up the mind and heart in a way that a pure math or science track wouldn’t do for them.
One thing that delighted me the most when I met with a group of new recruits and gave them the history of Kanbay was that I realized how many of them—it seemed like half the room—came out of modest social backgrounds. This didn’t happen at other places, and it shows the openness to who we were hiring. One thing that reflects our success is that we had a 92-95% retention rate in the IT sector - just incredible.
EBBF: And I guess that you yourselves, the founders, exemplified this commitment in your own lives as well.
John: There was an interesting outcome throughout the life of our company. The three founders were an Australian, an Indian lawyer, and a Canadian—me. Our employees (we called them associates as a way of honoring them) knew that we had spent years in service in the villages of India. Most of them grew up in cities where more money is available for educating young people in computers. So it was a matter of considerable awe and respect that two of us had spent a large part of our lives in service in villages. It’s not easy to live in an Indian village. Most people are striving to live more comfortable lives in cities. It made a big difference in the culture of our organization because when we talked about service, and about being clear about culture, people knew we meant it.
All associates knew from stories that one of the founders was a Christian clergyman. I never met a single person who considered this a problem; instead, it was a matter of intrigue, interest and, frankly, respect. From this they assumed that the management team had an ethical base that they could trust. It was a common thing for people to come and discuss all sorts of personal issues with me when I’d show up on the premises: marital issues, family concerns, having to travel overseas, their problems, and so on. Had I not had my background in religious matters, this would not have happened. Now these weren’t easy conversations, because I didn’t want to become the company counselor. But although we had other people in company to do these things, people seemed to relate to me as a spiritual guide. They always had confidence in me and in Raymond [other founder from Australia], because we had spent time in villages and I had this religious training and inclination.
EBBF: You became a very profitable company, listed on the NASDAC, and then bought by a major European consulting firm. Did you have to sacrifice profits in order to insure this high level of caring and high quality environment for employees?
John: Well, it’s interesting to see how values really played in our favor from the very beginning. We were initially funded by family and friends, and then some venture capitalists invested in us. The first thing we told them about was our values. They agreed to funding us saying, ‘We’ll fund you because you led with your values and you’re the first company we’ve ever seen do this’. Then we were listed on NASDAQ, and eventually were bought by a major European consulting firm. So now the company continues to make its contribution in a larger context.
- Telling the story inspires others to rise to their greatness (Thea is speaking; John is seated behind her to the right)
EBBF: You sold the company to Cap Gemini some years ago. What happens to a values-based company when its leadership changes? Have Kanbay’s values persisted?
John: Well I know that there are thousands of emerging professionals in India who now have extremely high expectations for any company they may work for—food, washrooms, art, meeting rooms, no closed offices. Any of them who leave Kanbay will have high expectations, and have successful patterns if they establish their own companies. They will never forget the impact of working at Kanbay.
The way life is designed is that your capacity to contribute to an organization does come to an end. You can choose when you are going to end your influence—when you die or some other time before that. You can call it tragic, or relate to it in some other way.
So when there was talk about being bought, we ‘offered the company up’ and I offered myself up. One of the founders of company is still with CapGemini and others who had strong influence in the company are also there. Kanbay was an intense experience for everyone, and now that is spreading to CapGemini and other places where people have moved on. I have no way of knowing what influence our company has had on the continuing company or other organizations. All I know is that we had quite an intense and successful experience with our organization, and we offered it up.
I don’t know if you’re familiar with the story of Mother Teresa, but her writings revealed that she went through a ‘desert of the spirit’, but continued to serve throughout that period. I believe this is what is really called for. If we’re able to stand in a way that gives others courage, even a little bit, that’s important. It doesn’t leave much room for the ‘luxury of spiritual collapse’—whining, complaining about life, quitting what you are doing because it’s too hard, destroying people around you with your impatience. There is no room for this in terms of caring for our future society.
EBBF: I’m wondering if you could make explicit the connection between your Faith and your life’s work. How did it affect your motivation and choice of path?
John: My faith has a couple of dimensions to it that I think might be relevant to this conversation. One is that at the heart of life there is mystery and there is that which is beyond my human grasp to either control or to finally understand. And that leads me, though always imperfectly, in the direction of humility wrapped in awe. Humility wrapped in awe is not a bad posture when it comes to dealing with your fellow human beings. That wonderful Indian greeting ‘Namaste’—folded hands and a bow—is something like ‘the god in me honors the god in you’. That’s not bad relative to a ritual embodiment of humility wrapped in awe when it comes to dealing with human beings. If your posture in life, your first encounter with anyone—be it a street person on the sidewalk or a prime minister or president—is humility wrapped in awe, that seems like a fine, sound way to approach your fellow human beings.
So respect for the individual is the first value. It rolls off your tongue pretty easily, but if you see it as I just described it—as a foundational understanding of life—it goes quite a bit deeper.
The second aspect of my faith I want to talk about is that I see waking up in the morning as a full and absolutely perfect permission to completely spend my energies that day. That’s religious. I have been given permission from the universe to deliver all I have to deliver one more time. Each day is a precious day and there is nothing holding me back. There are those who wake up in the morning and experience only dread, regret, guilt, or pain. When I wake up in the morning I choose a posture born from my faith—just the waking up every day is a gift from the universe, as one more day of great opportunity. Regret does not come in to my life. Of course, there have been things I haven’t done well, but here I’ve been given a brand new day. My life is absolutely perfect, here I am: awake. There is something about this that gives you permission for tremendous caring, courage, and creativity. That’s my faith.
I think this makes a huge difference. It affects my relationship with every person, every problem, every crisis, every encounter with every other human being (even with interviewers!). Do I do it out of a sense of adventure, or out of protectiveness, trying to hide myself? The poetic system which I find helpful to describe my faith is not at all superior to anyone else’s. I treasure the moments when I can meet other people from different faiths at a level below the poetry we use, where we can find commonality. You know, “Jesus loves me” means nothing to most people on the planet. What’s important is the deep human reality beneath that poetic system, the deeper water table underneath the various expressions. Because it is there that you experience faith to faith, beyond the poetry, and therefore human to human in a profound way. In our company we had every rich expression of living faith and the capacity to work shoulder to shoulder with people from dramatically different faith traditions. You entrust your life to these people. What could be greater than that?
- A locally initiated HIV-AIDS project takes shape
EBBF: You mention that your life is a single story. What is it for you that connects your experience as a village worker in India with the seemingly opposite experience as a CEO of a large IT consultancy company, and your current work now with Abbey North, working on environmental issues and the fight against AIDS in Africa? Was your experience with Kanbay a continuation of the life of a pastor, and service organization in rural Indian villages? Wasn’t one devoted to service, and to the service of the spiritual, while the other was more about money?
John: Since leaving Kanbay and returning to Canada to live, Thea and I have dedicated ourselves and our resources to addressing three critical and systemic global challenges: Ending the HIV/AIDS pandemic in Africa, Caring for the environment, and Delegitimizing war. “Abbey North”, as our home in Haliburton, Ontario has come to be known, hosts gatherings of family and friends who meet to discuss and decide on strategies and projects that will address one or more of these challenges. There are currently major projects on the go in Africa that we are supporting both financially and otherwise and that are specifically geared to help African communities get HIV/AIDS under control. Along with members of our local community, we have launched a major initiative to reduce our county’s carbon footprint and move towards food and energy self-sufficiency and sustainability. While the path towards delegitimizing war remains somewhat foggy, our commitment is unfailing. We are convinced that new approaches to handling our human conflicts must be conceived and constructed and the machinery of war disentangled and dismantled.
It seems to me that it is precisely the combination of service work and successful business experience that has engendered in us the audacity to hope for a better future and to attempt to bring people together to address these challenges. We are grateful for the life experiences that have brought us back to Canada and feel extraordinarily privileged to be able to reach out with others for new meaningful ways to serve.
